Okay, normally I am not into commenting about ascents of boulders I will never climb, but I just had a conversation that raised my eyebrows. Three days ago I posted about the really nice free downloadable movie ‘The Swiss Account’ which features a lot of hard problems in the 8th grade. In the video some boulders are climbed that were opened, and mentioned in the guidebooks, with a sitstart. For some reason the guys in The Swiss Account start some of these problems without sitting on their bums. Now I haven’t seen any comments on the web yet, but because you don’t have to be an 8th grade climber to see the difference between a sitstart and a standing start, I want to discuss this matter here.
Everyone who posts videos showing ascents should be aware that he or she becomes a role model. If you show ascents, make sure you are showing them how they should be done, because you can be pretty sure other climbers will take your ascent as an example and follow your ‘beta’.
What happens in ‘The Swiss Account’ is that a boulder like Steppenwolf 8b in Magic Wood is started standing, while the guidebooks say it should be started with a sitstart. I am not able to judge if a standing start makes the problem easier, but from what I’ve heard from climbers who can, the sitstart is a pretty big challenge.
If The American Sitstart becomes a new standard for Steppenwolf, there will be downgrading. And once Steppenwolf (american sitstart) becomes, for example, 8a. The problem will never become 8b again. Same goes for Voigas 8a+ and some other problems which are also mentioned with a sitstart in the guidebooks. I think loosing these classic high grade boulders with sitstarts would be a pity. So if you climb a boulder without the sitstart, and launch a video about it, it would be nice to mention you did the problem without the original start and give it, there you go Jens :-), a personal grade.
Be aware that you have the power to change they way problems are being climbed by posting videos showing ascents.
Of course the climbers in this video can climb these problems using the original sitstarts, they are damn strong and do even harder problems in the video in the way they were opened. That is why I am wondering why the sitstarts are ignored in some cases. Didn’t they have a guidebook? Did they find the sitstarts hideously ugly?
This is my opinion and I hope it’s yours too: Whether you’re climbing 8b or 5b… if a guidebook says a boulder starts with a sitstart you’ll start with your bum on the crashpad. If you don’t, then you didn’t climb the original problem.
Good of you to write about this, because it should be discussed.
I agree with what you write, and also don’t climb as hard as he guys in the vid, but the theory of sit starting would seem to transgress grades. “you start with your butt on the ground/thin pad, and your butt is the last to leave the ground. If you can’t reach the start holds, and only if you can’t reach the start holds, fold your pad.
In their video they climb “river slab 7B” (one of the few boulders in the video that i’d have a chance in) starting with what is best described as a jump start, in the guidebook (maybe they didn’t have it?) it is called “Grit de Luxe 7A+ sit start”.
At least they didn’t claim an ascent of Grit de Luxe ;)
“Style matters because climbing doesn’t.” (attributed to Jim Donini)
Eyy Joost
I saw the movie a few days ago and since then I was thinking of Steppenwolf (it’s a problem I want to try for a long time). What I have heard (from a few good sources) is that one of the hardest moves is to get that bum of the ground. I checked the problem today (wet!!) and the first move looks like the hardest to me. But Carlo is small, so maybe he couldn’t reach the holds from his bum?
For Voigas: I have no idea where that one starts but the guide says it’s a sitstart.
And now we are on it I want to make a remark of the most bizar send of the riverbed EVER! WTF!
ps: Take a look at Satan I Helvete assis in “Between the trees” same problematic start of Tyler Landman.
A very nice example could be this:
Alex Puccio on Marble SIT…at about 30 seconds…
http://vodpod.com/watch/1026383-alex-puccio-on-marble-cake-sit-v12
But maybe she couldn’t reach the starting holds seated…good effort anyway
Thanks guys, I think that for shorter people it is better to make a double or triple crashpad sitstart then to change the sitstart into a low start (named american sitstart above ;)
With a multiple crashpad start you can still start with stretched arms and make a sitstart like the definition by finbarr above.
I often fold crashpads for my girlfriend…
But maybe that’s not possible in all cases? Please correct me when I am wrong.
hey joost,
I completely agree with you and the other guys in the comments.
if you can’t reach the starting holds from a single unfolded pad, you can fold. if the problem is significantly easier because of folding or squatting, the most ethical solution is to say that you didn’t do the original version.
if this is the case for the short americans, then they should’ve made mention of it. and also they should not claim the same grade.
and about that riverbed ascent: I hope there’s video!
Well written reply by Carlo at 8a.nu
http://8a.nu/forum/ViewForumThread.aspx?ObjectId=19631&ObjectClass=CLS_UserNewsComment&CountryCode=GLOBAL